Top 10 Reasons To Eat Real Sourdough Bread — Even If You’re Gluten Intolerant
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This post is part of Real Food Wednesdays. Visit Kelly the Kitchen Kop for more stories about real food.
The other day I went to the farmer’s market in Santa Monica and spent some time talking to Jack Bezian of Bezian’s Bakery, the home of Los Angeles Sourdough. I say “spent some time” which makes it sound like twenty minutes or so, but the truth is I must have talked to him for a a couple of hours.
The man is a font of fascinating information about health, nutrition, probiotics, gluten intolerance, and fermented foods. He’s been baking traditional sourdough bread since 1966. I’m not talking about the fake stuff you find in grocery stores — this is bread made from a living sourdough starter.
Most modern bread is made with baker’s yeast. Sourdough starter is the traditional way of making bread. It’s how everyone used to make bread before they had commercial baker’s yeast. There are many advantages to eating naturally fermented bread instead of modern bread made with yeast.
Let me share with you some of the things baker Jack Bezian teaches about real, traditionally prepared, naturally fermented sourdough bread — and why it’s so much healthier for us than yeast bread.
First of all, the real sourdough they bake at Bezian’s Bakery is probiotic, like kefir or yogurt, containing multiple strains of beneficial microflora. Bezian’s Bakery has a very slow process of baking which allows the bread to ferment for several days up to a month. This helps to promote the growth of more probiotic organisms.
These probiotic microorganisms:
1. Digest and assimilate (properly absorb) the foods you eat. Without adequate beneficial microflora in your gut, you can’t absorb nutrients in the foods you are eating.
2. Are necessary in order to maintain a healthy intestinal tract.
3. Contain uniquely balanced proteins, fatty acids, cellulose, minerals, and innumerable other nutrients our bodies need.
4. Provide vitamins B1 through B6 from lactobacillus and B12 vitamins from wild yeast. Wild yeast multiplies aerobically. This is because they have oxygen in them (not free radical oxygen ions) that feed your blood cells and not cancer cells. Most plant proteins including grains, seeds, cereals, beans, nuts, and some grasses form gluten. However, sourdough microflora has all the amino acids available, without the protein that forms gluten.
5. Depletes damaged starch in bread, thus diabetic people should not get insulin shock. It is a misconception that whole wheat is better than white flour for diabetics (the Glycemic difference is only 1%).
6. Produce acids, which will break down and remove some of the glutens from the bread. Acids do not allow mold and most bad bacterial growth. Alkaline with high pH allows mold growth and toxins. Mold ferments at a higher pH, allowing bad bacterial growth and the secretion of toxins. The absence of acids is abnormal, even animals have acid stomachs to kill bad bacteria.
7. Offset the effects of phytic acid, which robs your body of precious minerals.
According to Wikipedia:
Phytic acid is found within the hulls of nuts, seeds, and grains. In-home food preparation techniques can reduce the phytic acid in all of these foods. Simply cooking the food will reduce the phytic acid to some degree. More effective methods are soaking in an acid medium, lactic acid fermentation, and sprouting.
Phytic acid is a strong chelator of important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc, and can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake, such as those in developing countries. It also acts as an acid, chelating the vitamin niacin, which is basic, causing the condition known as pellagra. In this way, it is an anti-nutrient. For people with a particularly low intake of essential minerals, especially young children and those in developing countries, this effect can be undesirable.
“Probiotic lactobacilli, and other species of the endogenous digestive microflora as well, are an important source of the enzyme phytase which catalyses the release of phosphate from phytate and hydrolyses the complexes formed by phytate and metal ions or other cations, rendering them more soluble ultimately improving and facilitating their intestinal absorption
8. Dissolve proteins by producing protein enzymes, thus loosening multiple peptide bonds so that you can absorb more amino acids into your body. They dissolve four gluten-forming proteins: albumin, globulin, prolamin, and glutalin. They also produce alcohol that dissolves the most stubborn water insoluble protein bonds. These bonds are the reason why so many people have gluten intolerance.
9. Inhibit the growth of bad bacteria by: (1) creating a more acidic environment (2) producing anti-bacterial agents, and (3) absorbing all the B vitamins from their surroundings leaving none for the harmful bacteria.
10. Have most everything needed for optimum nutritional absorption. To absorb calcium, you need magnesium. To absorb magnesium, you need vitamin E, C, etc. Most of these are in the sourdough microorganisms, thus providing optimum absorption.
Here’s the most exciting part: I took this bread home and gave some to my daughter, Kate. Kate normally cannot eat wheat bread, even sprouted bread. But she could eat this bread! She had no reaction like she normally does with wheat bread. Words cannot express how happy this makes me. Now I can make her sandwiches!
Jack told me that their ultra-slow method of making sourdough bread (fermenting it for several days and up to a month) is what breaks it down to the point that gluten intolerant people can eat it.
He told me the story of one of his customers, a celiac. The guy could not eat any bread whatsoever — but when he tried it, he found that he could eat Jack’s bread.
Then he tried making sourdough bread at home. He found that he could eat his own bread that he made, but not his wife’s. He couldn’t understand this — since they were using the same starter, the same flour, the same water. It turns out that the wife was not kneading her bread as long — and this was what made it impossible for the celiac to eat.
So clearly, not all sourdough bread is the same, and the fermentation time and process does matter.
Of course I have to also mention that this bread is wildly delicious. Some of the best bread I’ve ever eaten. And I’ve eaten award-winning baguettes in Paris. Jack’s bread is just as good.
I wish I could tell you that Jack ships his bread all over the country but sadly, I don’t think he does. If you live in Los Angeles, you can get his bread at the following farmer’s markets: Santa Monica (Wednesday market only — he’s not there on Saturdays), Pasadena (Saturdays) and Hollywood (Sundays).
You can try making your own sourdough at home. For sources of sourdough starters, please visit my resources page.
I also recommend using sprouted flour. I’m not sure about this but I think if you start with sprouted flour (instead of regular flour) and ferment it with a sourdough culture, you might not have to ferment it as long, since you’re already starting with sprouted flour. For sources of sprouted flour, visit my resources page.
Don’t forget to visit Kelly the Kitchen Kop for more stories about real food.
Photo credits: Yelp
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31/03/2009 at 8:31 pm Permalink
If he won’t ship it, I wonder if he’d give instructions on exactly how he does it…? I wonder if it’s just a basic sourdough recipe, only he lets it set longer?
Kelly the Kitchen Kop’s last blog post..The Importance of the FAT-soluble Vitamins – Real Food Wednesday
31/03/2009 at 8:42 pm Permalink
He has a fermentation class that he teaches… I am going to take it. I’ll post more as I learn more from him!
01/04/2009 at 3:13 am Permalink
In Adelaide, South Australia – I am proud to say we have one bakery that makes traditional sourdough bread – Paolo’s Bakery! You can buy Light Rye, Rye, & Spelt. They have just started making it in a small sliced loaf (its always in a round loaf) that our local grocer is stocking for us. I am so thrilled about this as I dont have time to bake my own & now I can rest a little easier knowing my family are taking great sandwiches to work, school & day care
01/04/2009 at 3:48 am Permalink
Hey Ann-Marie – This sounds too good to be true – three in our family cannot eat wheat bread, but we used to love sourdough bread…. PLEASE SEE IF HE WILL TEACH YOU HOW TO DO IT, OR SELL THE STARTER OR SOMETHING….
thanks!
01/04/2009 at 5:01 am Permalink
Great article! It has me wondering
-how is the bread still probiotic after being baked? Doesn’t the heat kill the good guys? Now, I know they’ve still done their awesome job of breaking down starch, phytic acid, etc., but it’s not actually probiotic when you eat it, is it?
-I recently read that white sourdough is MORE nutritious & less damaging to blood sugar fluctuations than whole non-sourdough. I believe it! But I’m waiting for their white sourdough to whole sourdough comparisons. Do you know if traditional sourdough (like the Romans ate!) was whole or white? Did they sift out the bran & germ? I just don’t know!
-so I don’t suppose most storebought sourdough is made this way? I buy TJ’s ww sourdough, but they have white, too. They also have a long-fermented ww Tuscan Pane bread made from far less yeast than most commercial bread. (I checked it out after reading an article from an Australian breadmaker who detailed the change from slow-rise to quick-rise in commercial bread c. 1950s and the subsequent decline in public health.)
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01/04/2009 at 5:01 am Permalink
I wonder if this would help my mom who has fibromyalgia? I have read that one of the things that you shouldn’t eat with fibromyalgia is gluten. Thank you for sharing this!
Relishing Life’s last blog post..Feeding My Family Frugally
01/04/2009 at 5:10 am Permalink
Nice! Now, i gotta get my hands on some sourdough bread (this is the first ive truly understood why its so good to eat, thanks for breaking it down like that :^) ).
I wish I could make some on my own, but i literally have no room in my kitchen to do so :^( Maybe once we move (we are looking to move to GA either later this year or next year).
01/04/2009 at 5:52 am Permalink
Thanks for all this info, Ann Marie. I really need to get back on my sourdough experimenting after I have this baby!! I’ve even got a quart of sprouted wheat so I can experiment with sprouted wheat tortillas! Ah, one day soon I shouldn’t be quite so large, right? Ever hear of anyone being pregnant forever?
I am wondering how using sprouted wheat changes the gluten and therefore the texture of the bread. I once tried to make a sprouted wheat bread and the gluten was broken…..just not great bread structure.
Also, how sour is Mr. Bezian’s sourdough? I would think with days of fermenting a loaf, it might get very sour. Looking forward to your details from his classes!
01/04/2009 at 5:57 am Permalink
Debbie, you can buy a starter from Cultures for Health http://www.culturesforhealth.com
01/04/2009 at 6:14 am Permalink
Hi, LYM,
I saw that article about the Australian breadmaker.
I don’t think the center of the bread gets heated to the point of killing the good bacteria. But even if they are dead, they still have produced all the acids, vitamins and minerals, etc. that we need.
I don’t know if the Romans ate white or wheat — I will have to ask Jack if he knows. He uses white flour for most of his bread, but he has other varieties as well.
No, most storebought sourdough bread is fake — made with commercial yeast. However, the TJ’s sourdough bread is made with a starter. It’s good. I don’t know how long they ferment it, though.
01/04/2009 at 6:17 am Permalink
Kristin, I know how it is when you are tired of being pregnant!
The Bezian’s Bakery sourdough is delicious. I think it rivals any of the Presidential award winning baguettes I’ve had in Paris.
Some loaves are more sour than others — it depends on how long he ferments each one.
01/04/2009 at 7:17 am Permalink
Good morning.
Great info in this post. I came to your site via my nieghbor, Kelly’s kitchenkop site.
For nutritional/health purposes, I cut out almost all gluten from my diet two years ago. I am excited to try the sourdough bread.
Also, thanks for the link to the sprouted flour store.
01/04/2009 at 7:22 am Permalink
I’m sorry to be the downer here, but there’s absolutely no way that the gluten “disappears” in a sourdough bread. Not at all. It may have been tantalizing that your daughter had no immediate reaction, but the auto-immune response (for those of us with celiac) continues, even if we have no outward signs. Please, if you are celiac, don’t do this.
I’ve been told by different bread makers at farmers’ markets too that I could eat their bread (“It’s so low gluten that you won’t be affected.”). If it comes from wheat flour, it’s still wheat. Seriously, this could make people sick.
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01/04/2009 at 7:35 am Permalink
If I buy sourdough starters to make my own bread, should I use white, wheat or sprouted flour? Or does it matter and I will get the same benefit with any type of flour because I am allowing it to ferment?
01/04/2009 at 7:59 am Permalink
LYM – found this while researching on the internet :
“The Romans knew several kinds of bread. Mostly these breads were made with sourdough. The bread could be made of wheat, spelt, barley, millet or rice. Even ground pulses were used. In the second century before Christ bread started to displace pottages with pulses as basic food. Bread was eaten every day, at every meal. This explains the “bread and circuses”: both were considered essential to the well-being of the “plebs”.”
01/04/2009 at 8:16 am Permalink
Thank you so much for this post! I was hopeful that iodine would help my thyroid but after a brief email exchange with Dr. Flechas found out that my hypothyroidism is most likely autoimmune, which isn’t necessarily caused by an iodine deficiency. It can be caused by gluten intollerance, which I have always suspected I have. My 14-month-old daughter also has a skin rash that has been clearing up since taking her off wheat. I tried making sourdough starter and killed it about 3 times so I think I need to buy some mature starter. I am dying to know how long he ferments the bread to make it tollerable for celiacs. I have done up to 24 hours but I’m guessing that’s not long enough.
Also, Tamara, don’t give up on bread baking because you have a small kitchen. Mine is tiny. I just let the bread rise on a cutting board so I can move it around and free up my small counter. Where there’s a will there’s a way!
01/04/2009 at 8:18 am Permalink
Shauna,
I really think it depends on the person. My daughter is not celiac. She just gets a little rash on her face when she eats wheat.
I’m not advocating that celiacs eat sourdough bread.
Here’s another good article on celiac disease and sourdough bread:
http://westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/healing-celiac-disease.html
Ann Marie
01/04/2009 at 8:29 am Permalink
Cool information! I highly doubt my abilities to ever consistently make sourdough bread, and we really like our bread in my family. On a whim I googled sourdough bread in Kansas City and found a local place that makes organic, sourdough fermented bread here! The description sounds very similar to the bakery you posted about in terms of the way the bread is made. And the bakery is even right next door to one of our few local, organic restaurants – I’m super excited to go try it this week!
Here’s the site for any KC readers: http://www.heartlandmill.com/baker_pages/fervere.htm
01/04/2009 at 8:53 am Permalink
But the bread isn’t a probiotic food, though, right? I mean, aren’t the wee beasties killed through the baking process? So surely they don’t colonize the gut after baking, even though they do render the bread more digestible.
There’s been a handful of studies done on celiac disease and sourdough bread–each indicating that the traditional souring process eliminates gluten toxicity. I was DXed with celiac disease in August of last year and I can now tolerate sourdough without a problem. I tried sprouted grain, but that’s proving to be a lot more difficult.
Jenny’s last blog post..And the Winner is …
01/04/2009 at 8:54 am Permalink
duh … it wasn’t August of last year, it was August of 2004.
Jenny’s last blog post..And the Winner is …
01/04/2009 at 9:12 am Permalink
So I wonder how it would be possible to tell if one is able to tollerate sourdough or not if the only effect is an autoimmune response. Is there some kind of blood test that can be taken before and after eating it or something? I have no idea how to tell if it is causing an autoimmune response to my thyroid or not. I am able to tell sometimes if I’ve eating the wrong thin by taking my basal body temperature.
01/04/2009 at 9:35 am Permalink
I’m with Shauna on this. The term “Gluten intolerance” is applied to many people who have all the symptoms of celiac disease but who haven’t had a blood test or biopsy confirming celiac disease (often because doing the gluten challenge required to get a postive test would be so detrimental to their health).
Both are on the continuum of serious autoimmune problems.
I used to baked, and made wonderful sourdough. But when I became gluten intolerant, I reacted to the sourdough just as much.
Perhaps if someone has a very mild sensitivity to wheat/gluten, it might not be an issue, but if someone is gluten intolerant due to autoimmune problems, making sourdough isn’t going to fix that.
I usually agree with both WAP and you, but the effects of consuming gluten when one is gluten intolerant include cancer of the intestines, neuropathies, and brain damage. It’s not something to mess about with just so one can have some delicious bread.
Carys
PS Any idea why your main page has been timing out for me for the past month? I found I could add it as a feed on LJ and go to individual entries (although they’re slow to load), but the main page is still not working. I have a low bandwidth connection,if that makes a difference.
C
01/04/2009 at 11:16 am Permalink
Carys – I found one of your statements very interesting–”when I became gluten intollerant”. Celiac’s is inherited, not developed. I suppose if you inherit celiac’s it can lie dormant for many years before something causes your body to react more severely (like stress, pregnancy, or some other major event). But when you read Dr. Price’s book there is no mention of isolated tribes not being able to tollerate gluten or dairy. They thrived on them. So it makes me wonder why so many of us have such trouble with gluten or dairy. I’m inclined to think our heritage predisposes us to a sensitivity, but if we were raised on nourishing food, full of the enzymes needed to digest our food, rather than junk full of toxins, our bodies would be able to digest gluten and other foods just fine and our immune systems wouldn’t react with autoimmune disorders. In the article referenced by AnnMarie, (http://westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/healing-celiac-disease.html) the author’s father wasn’t immediately able to handle sourdough. It took a couple of years of healing. And I doubt that he would still be as healthy and vibrant at 80 years old if he was silently suffering from an autoimmune problem. That surely would have surfaced before now. AnnMarie makes a good point. It depends on the individual and the severity of their condition. One would have to be very self-aware throughout the whole process. Our bodies were designed to heal themselves. It is possible that a person could have a gluten intollerance at some point in life and subsequently be healed from it by following nourishing practices.
I’m thinking of purchasing the e-book at the end of the author’s bio. after the article you posted, AnnMarie. It’s 150 pages all about sourdough, evidently the sourdough her father could eat.
01/04/2009 at 11:31 am Permalink
This was so informative – thank you so much. I checked out Grindstone but don’t see any sourdough bread. Will try TJs sourdough for now.
01/04/2009 at 12:17 pm Permalink
I was wondering, when you say “Bezian’s Bakery has a very slow process of baking which allows the bread to ferment for several days up to a month. ” Do you mean they ferment the starter for that long, or the actual loaf theyll bake?
I checked up on sourdough on YouTube, and there are some good videos on how to make the starter yourself – it seems super easy
Though you say “the real sourdough they bake at Bezian’s Bakery is probiotic, like kefir or yogurt, containing multiple strains of beneficial microflora” – so I suppose their starter is more than just the basic water-flour combo – There is actually a YouTube series on Kefir sourdough starters, though I ahven’t seen it all yet.
01/04/2009 at 12:59 pm Permalink
Great post, I wish I could try the bread. I wish I were brave enough to try to make my own sourdough, but I’m just still learning how it all works.
One thing that struck me was the claim of the bread containing B12. I only noted it because I was reading the book Wild Fermentation last night and read that B12 is only found in foods from animal source, and that B12 in ferments are actually “inactive analogues”. His footnote showed this information was from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
Just wondering which was right?
01/04/2009 at 1:53 pm Permalink
Kaylin,
I should have said “When I was finally diagnosed with gluten intolerance…”
01/04/2009 at 2:24 pm Permalink
I agree with Shauna. In the gluten-free community, one has to be careful when you say “You can eat this bread, even though it has wheat.” Also, the terms gluten intolerant and celiac are often interchangeable, as the word celiac means you are gluten intolerant– your body cannot deal with the gluten, but it is not “allergic” to it in an antibody mediated reaction. Lastly, having a mild problem with wheat is very different than having a problem with gluten, no matter what the severity. I love your blog, just be sure to keep the facts straight! A lot of gluten-free people are very sensitive to what gluten-eaters say about their condition (because they are often misinformed) and everyone likes to put their two cents in and “correct” them. No doubt this is a great article to spread the word about some fantastic sourdough bread that is very healthy for your body, but I wouldn’t label it safe for gluten intolerants. The wheat-lovers, however, will be very happy to see a new source of delicious bread! Continue to update us, AnnMarie!
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01/04/2009 at 2:39 pm Permalink
Awesome. I want to try making my own for sure! Thanks for all the great info.
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01/04/2009 at 3:31 pm Permalink
Great post Ann Marie! My hubby is very, very gluten-intolerant. We’re incredibly lucky to have Pleasanton Bakery here which makes traditional, slow ferment sourdough and my hubby can eat it! It’s wonderful. I’d like to learn how to make it myself.
@Kelly – you can drive up here to TC and stock up on bread at Pleasanton :p
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01/04/2009 at 3:41 pm Permalink
Thanks for clarifying, Carys. That makes more sense.
01/04/2009 at 3:46 pm Permalink
Hi, everyone, sounds like I need to do some more follow up articles on this topic.
Please read the article I posted above:
http://westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/healing-celiac-disease.html
Excerpt:
“A study published in February, 2004 in Applied and Environmental Microbiology with the tantalizing title “Sourdough Bread Made from Wheat and Nontoxic Flours and Started with Selected Lactobacilli Is Tolerated in Celiac Sprue Patients,” describes the results of an Italian research team which, encouraged by preliminary findings of their earlier work in vitro, designed an in vivo experiment to test their findings. The team’s premise was that lactobacilli, chosen for their ability to hydrolyze or sever protein (gliadin) fractions might be key in processing wheat flour so that its toxic properties would be neutralized and therefore not harmful to celiac patients.”
This thing is not letting me type a long comment so I will post this broken up into a few comments…
01/04/2009 at 3:47 pm Permalink
To continue… I also recommend reading the work of Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride and Elaine Gottschall.
Many believe that eliminating gluten is the solution to celiac disease, but Dr. Sidney Haas (and subsequently Elaine Gottcshall, Specific Carbohydrates Diet, & Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride, GAPS Diet) have all successfully treated and reversed gluten intolerance by having people avoid ALL complex sugars (disaccharides and polysaccharides), not just gluten, in order to heal the gut.
Here is an excerpt from http://mindd.org/s/archives.php/107-Disorders.html:
“Wheras Dr. Haas recognized celiac as a sensitivity to disaccharides and polysaccharides, the Birmingham group isolated it to gluten. The Lancet published the Birmingham theory and the more easy-to-follow regime of excluding only gluten pervades to this day.”
Many people with coeliac do have damaged digestive tracts (flattened microvilli) and might consider avoiding soy, corn, dairy, refined carbohydrates and sugar. Dr. Haas found that if coeliacs and others with digestive disorders eliminated disaccharides (sugars) and polysaccharides (refined carbohydrates) for a year period (a year or so) then the gut healed and in some cases many foods could be reintroduced.”
Interestingly, if you read in my post above, Jack Bezian says that sourdough bread that is adequately fermented (over a long period of time — at least a few days and up to a month) produces microorganisms that “dissolve proteins by producing protein enzymes, thus loosening multiple peptide bonds so that you can absorb more amino acids into your body. They dissolve four gluten-forming proteins: albumin, globulin, prolamin, and glutalin. They also produce alcohol that dissolves the most stubborn water insoluble protein bonds. These bonds are the reason why so many people have gluten intolerance.”
What Bezian is saying seems to fit with what Haas, Gottschall & McBride have been saying. They say that it is the lack of enzymes in the digestive tract of the gluten intolerant person that makes it impossible for them to digest gluten. Disaccharides and polysaccharides, unlike monosaccharides, require enzymes to be broken down and digested. People who are gluten intolerant have “flattened microvilli”; it is the microvilli that normally secretes the enzymes that help to digest these complex sugars.
So, in other words, if sourdough bread is allowed to ferment to the point that the enzymes break down the peptide bonds, the bread is more digestible to those who are lacking the enzymes.
That said, I do not think someone who has extremely flattened or damaged microvilli should attempt eating sourdough bread. I think someone in that condition should work first to heal the gut and regrow the microvilli — by following either the GAPS or SCD protocol.
But for those who are mildly intolerant (like my daughter), I think real sourdough bread is something they can eat. And I think all people should eat sourdough or naturally fermented/leavened bread instead of modern bread (made with yeast) in order to maintain a healthy digestive tract.
01/04/2009 at 3:51 pm Permalink
Also I want to add that it takes months to years in order to regrow and repair damaged microvilli.
I do think it’s possible though, for most people, by avoiding all disaccharides and polysaccharides, and by taking therapeutic grade probiotics. I also think bone broth is essential for healing the gut.
But I want to stress that it’s not something you can hope for in a matter of days or weeks — it takes months, and more typically years for the microvilli to regrow and repopulate the intestinal lining.
01/04/2009 at 4:04 pm Permalink
Kaylin,
Dr. Campbell-McBride says that it is our modern diet that has caused our modern food allergies. When we have a lack of good bacteria in our gut, and when we eat foods that are damaging to our gut (like unsoaked/unfermented grains), we end up with flattened microvilli. Microvilli are tiny microscopic hairs that grow on our enterocytes, which are the cells that line the gut wall. It is the job of the microvilli to secrete enzymes which help us digest our food.
Bone broth and probiotics are critical in healing the gut and helping the microvilli to regrow. You also can’t consume anything that you can’t digest (starches, sugars, anything that requires enzymes to break down). Monosaccharides (meats, non-starchy vegetables, eggs) do not require enzymes to be broken down — they are digested easily.
Most of us have a lack of good bacteria due to many things: antibiotics, chlorine in our water, the birth control pill. We also don’t eat fermented foods (sourdough, kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut, kimchee) like we used to, which helps to add good bacteria to our gut on a regular basis. We also don’t eat bone broth regularly like we used to — which helps to keep the gut healthy (it’s very soothing to the mucosal walls of the intestine).
And, like I said, we’re eating a lot of indigestible things that damage our gut lining. Soy, for example, is extremely hard on the gut lining, as are any grains, nuts and seeds that are not properly prepared by soaking, sprouting or fermenting.
Ann Marie
01/04/2009 at 4:10 pm Permalink
Hi, Meagan,
Please read my other comments re: healing the digestive tract.
I should note that my daughter is almost 2. She did not eat any grains for the first 18 months of her life. She pretty much followed the GAPS diet until 18 mos old.
Since then she has only eaten soaked/sprouted/fermented nuts/grains and seeds. I’ve also been giving her, in addition to fermented foods, the BioKult probiotic every day since she was 9 months old. In addition to that, I add bone broth to everything I can — beans, rice, sauces, gravies, soups, stews, etc.
So I think we’ve come a long way in helping her heal. And yes she is not as bad off as others who have had limited or no healing. But we are working diligently to help heal her intestinal tract.
I hope to impart hope and inspiration to those who are gluten intolerant. Maybe you can’t eat this sourdough bread today – but maybe you can within a year or two or three after following a healing protocol to reverse gluten intolerance.
01/04/2009 at 4:20 pm Permalink
Kari –
They ferment the loaf, not just the starter.
01/04/2009 at 4:22 pm Permalink
Carys – I’m sorry you are having problems loading this website. I guess it might be the ads. I did recently add the SuperCache plugin which is helping speed the load time.
01/04/2009 at 4:46 pm Permalink
How is this bread better for diabetics if it still contains the same amount of carbohydrates as nonfermented bread? Carbs = insulin output. Some of those claims sounds rather grandiose and unsubstantiated, although the bread certainly looks delicious!
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01/04/2009 at 4:56 pm Permalink
I still feel it’s irresponsible to tell people with autoimmune gluten intolerance or celiac disease that wheat (or related grains) are perfectly safe if they’ve been fermented.
I’m also curious whether Mr Bezian has had his sourdough tested to see if it’s below the threshhold that can be called gluten-free (10 ppm? 20?)?
If he has, then perhaps folks who aren’t as reactive to it really are able to eat it without damage, and more power to them.
To me, the risk of further brain damage due to my autoimmune reaction to gluten makes sourdough made from gluten grains not an option, and I find it frustrating when ppl ignore my experience and tell me that really, *this* way of preparing it will be fine.
I have adblocker installed and didn’t realize you had ads. That could be the problem.
Be well.
Carys
01/04/2009 at 10:12 pm Permalink
Jack does do fermentation workshop. He prefaces these that he will not teach how to make sourdough cultures as one of his concerns is that someone will use his techniques to establish their own business. At least that is how he feels about it at this time. I also feel that he has learned Sourdough breadmaking on his own, intuitively and through trial and error. That’s what makes his bread and insights so unique. He expects others to do the same.
Maurice’s last blog post..Class Schedule/Rates and Privates at Swami O’Bryan’s
02/04/2009 at 6:45 am Permalink
Thanks for the explanation about the villi flattening. I had read that they become inflamed and are subsequently unable to absorb nutrients, but hadn’t read that they actually flatten. I absolutely agree that it is important to cut out sugar as part of the healing process. I have done so much better on a no grain AND no sugar diet than I ever did on just gluten free. I can eat a little gluten once in a while without the ill effects I used to experience. I think my intestines have begun to heal. I did read somewhere that there is an herb that helps the villi to heal and repair but I can’t remember what it was or where I read it. Are you aware of any?
02/04/2009 at 8:27 am Permalink
They ferment the loaf(which would be rising it, I suppose. or perhaps rising it, beating it down and rising it again over and over again) for days and up to a month? hmmm how strange – I would have thought that turned the dough into a pure starter again.
Fascinating – I have to try this myself. lol too bad Jack wont let more on – I’m not interested in opening my own business, and living in Norway buying his breads would be difficult, lol.
02/04/2009 at 5:55 pm Permalink
Fascinating stuff. I’m somewhat obsessed with the making and science of sourdough bread. I’ve been on a journey to learn to make good, traditional sourdough for a couple of years. I’d be very interested to hear more of what this guy has to say.
I’m not to sure about some of these claims, however. For one thing, sourdough is usually baked to an internal temperature of 185-205 degrees. I really don’t think that the beneficial flora can survive this and still live in the bread when you eat it. Yes, the good buggies provide and make available all kinds of nutrients, as well as adding flavor and levening. But probiotic benefits? I highly doubt it.
Also, the gluten is important for the structure of the dough. If the dough gets to the point (either with over-kneading or over-fermenting) where the gluten “breaks”, the bread has no structure and tastes gross. The gluten is what allows the dough to stretch and hold air bubbles. I think it’s entirely possible that the fermentation of the dough makes the gluten somehow less offensive (my husband has always had a wheat sensitivity, but does great with my sourdough, either white or whole wheat). Gluten is a protein, so it’s probably something to do with the breaking down of the peptide bonds that makes the gluten more digestible.
This definitely warrants more research! I hope you will post more about this.
Rosie_Kate’s last blog post..Make-Work
02/04/2009 at 6:04 pm Permalink
Kaylin -
I haven’t heard about an herb. Let me know if you think of it.
Ann Marie
02/04/2009 at 6:08 pm Permalink
Rosie_Kate -
I have read elsewhere that sourdough bread does keep some of the good bugs alive. What I read was that the center of the bread does not get cooked at the higher temps.
“it’s probably something to do with the breaking down of the peptide bonds that makes the gluten more digestible.”
Yes, that is what Jack says.
I will keep posting — I am pretty obsessed with this, too!
03/04/2009 at 12:14 pm Permalink
Another fabulous article – thank you for all the great information. Being so close to San Francisco, sourdough has always been a staple in my life. Now if I could only master the making of it!
Cook 4 Seasons’s last blog post..Creamy Carrot Curry Soup
04/04/2009 at 2:26 am Permalink
“5. Depletes damaged starch in bread, thus diabetic people should not get insulin shock. It is a misconception that whole wheat is better than white flour for diabetics (the Glycemic difference is only 1%).”
I, too, am interested in the statement about sourdough being better for diabetics. If this is true, I’m gonna be so all over this bread! I’d like to have more explanation of that statement about damaged starch in bread.
Naomi
05/04/2009 at 8:46 am Permalink
Any idea how those of us not local can recreate his process in our own kitchens? Does he bake it at a low temp for long periods or does he ferment for a long period before cooking? I would love to be able to tolerate wheat again.
Chris K’s last blog post..10/2/06 food log notes
05/04/2009 at 10:45 am Permalink
Chris -
He said he ferments it for anywhere from a few days up to a month before he bakes it. I will ask him more questions when I see him again. Probably gonna go again this Wed. I will post again on this subject.
09/04/2009 at 9:21 pm Permalink
Kristen,
http://www.pleasantonbakery.com/ – that place looks awesome and I WILL be getting me some when we’re up visiting my Aunt again soon!! Thanks for the tip!
Kelly the Kitchen Kop’s last blog post..Healthy Substitutions for Condiments and more – A Random Reader Question
20/04/2009 at 7:34 am Permalink
I have tried making bread using a method from a baking book called:” Artisan Bread in 5 minutes a day.” The authors came up with a method that is more like the European slow rise bread with some short cuts thrown in that make it doable, without losing the flavor and the benefits. Have you ever heard of the book and or tried the recipes, and if so, what is your opinion? I do not have the book, but found one recipe on line and tried it. It was the classic version using unbleached white flour, ending up with a bread that is much like a French boule. I have not found the whole wheat version available on line yet. So, I may need to purchase the book. The bread is tasty, I’ll say that much for sure.
26/04/2009 at 7:03 pm Permalink
Did any notice the comment that this Jack dude started baking sourdough bread in 1966? That was over 40 years ago. Was he five when he started baking sourdough bread? Because he doesn’t look a day over forty!
Geez, I gotta learn how to make sourdough bread. He looks so healthy. I’m highly curious about his age now.
27/04/2009 at 6:43 am Permalink
I got to meet Jack yesterday at the Hollywood farm market – you guys would love him, he’s got all these big signs there and flyers with info on his bread to teach people why it is so much better for them. As people walk up he’s always talking and teaching them, too. You should’ve seen his eyes light up when he saw Ann Marie! He must get a lot of business from her, and he should, he’s doing such good things!! He said he’s thinking about shipping – yay! I bought a yummy garlic & chives loaf. Mmmmmmm…
Kelly the Kitchen Kop’s last blog post..Monday Morning Mix-Up 4/27/09
04/05/2009 at 8:05 am Permalink
During the 80s, I played a lot with sourdough breads. It’s not hard at all. I am interested in using sprouted grain flour and on the length of time that Jack ferments his bread. I can’t imagine anyone using his practices to open a bakery that competes with him (after all, it is definitely NOT the kind of thing you can churn out in great quantities) but if he ever decided to do an online/youtube course, I would be willing to pay for it.
I gave up all grains mid February this year and initially felt much better. I had been eating wonderful sourdough loaves from Diamond Organics and Manna sprouted bread, but by a couple of weeks ago, started feeling bad again. Cutting out entire food groups (for me) is bad — apparently there are too many nutrients I need in some kind of bread. I have been using Manna’s sprouted rice and millet this past week, and it’s still not right.
I do believe that intestinal healing needs the best food possible. In my case, that’s NO sugar (whole or otherwise, fresh fruit is good), NO chocolate, NO eating out or packaged food, ONLY fresh (not frozen) foods, mostly RAW (I had a reaction to cooked vegetables I had other night — they put me right to sleep).
05/05/2009 at 10:06 am Permalink
Since no one addressed my (and Lauren B’s) question about sourdough and diabetes, I started doing some online research myself. Here is one site I found, and many others confirmed what they are saying here:
http://www.dlife.com/dLife/do/ShowContent/food_and_nutrition/menu_planning/healthy_swaps.page17
“Here’s a little gem of a nutrition nugget for people with diabetes. White bread, as we all know, is the quintessential enemy of good blood sugar control. Along with white potatoes and table sugar, white bread sits at the top of the no-no list. However, when lactic acid is added to bread dough, it does two things –– changes the flavor to the tangy, delicious bite of sourdough bread and mediates the glycemic impact of all that white wheat flour.
We know the glycemic response is less with sourdough because the acid slows the emptying of the stomach, thereby slowing the delivery of glucose to the bloodstream. And research has shown that this anti-glycemic effect can last through to the next meal, slowing the emptying of the stomach even a few hours later.
White sourdough is better than non-sourdough white, but a whole grain sourdough will still rank highest on the health meter and lowest in glycemic response.”
11/05/2009 at 10:08 am Permalink
You should tell Jack to write a book. Then any business he lost by other people starting bakeries would be more than compensated. And it would be a very timely book with all the interest in traditional foods.
I would also assume that wheat flour would be better than white because of the extra fiber that would also slow the absorbtion into the blood stream. Does anyone have any other info about what kind of flour is best to use?
Also, does anyone have any info on how to share a starter? My friend is willing to share hers with me, but she needs to know how to re-feed both hers and mine. Any ideas?
Thanks.
07/06/2009 at 10:45 am Permalink
Kelli, up in the main body of the post is a link to “Cultures for Health”, you can get your sourdough starter there.
I’m reading through all this again because I found a sourdough bread vendor at our farm market yesterday and I’m emailing them with questions. Sadly, I have a feeling they’ll never have heard some of the questions I’m asking, but we’ll see! Most of their breads have yeast, but a few don’t…
Kelly p.s. Naomi, LOVE that great scoop on sourdoughs and diabetes!
Kelly the Kitchen Kop’s last blog post..What’s Wrong With Breakfast Cereals? Random Reader Question
17/06/2009 at 3:09 pm Permalink
Coming in late on this but this is a fascinating post and the comments are interesting too. Some thoughts:
I have also read about the peptide bonds being broken in the gluten of traditional sourdough. Specifically it’s the bacteria that do it. Something was published about this–a research study, I think, and on an actual research study-type website. It’s not just speculation from a sourdough baker. Try googling something like “sourdough peptide bond gluten” to see what you come up with.
And it’s one particular peptide bond. Breaking it doesn’t mean the “gluten dissolves”–rather that it’s broken down somewhat. I’m not sure whether the entire molecule must remain intact for the bread to turn out well, or whether it being broken down slightly is also acceptable.
To any diabetic reading this and wondering about the comment about carb counts: Once you introduce sugar-eating bacteria, the equation changes. Technically, from a nutrition label standpoint, you still have the same carb count. Nutritionally, however, those bacteria turn some of that sugar into acid–which is still counted as a carb on the label, because in nutritionlabelese, “carbohydrate” is Latin for “none of the above.” As in, not a protein, not a fat, not a micronutrient, and not ash. Crazy, huh? Lactic acid doesn’t cause an insulin response, though. This is why I don’t eat low-carb yogurt. It’s an oxymoron, and anyway, they don’t make full-fat low-carb yogurts. I just buy full-fat unsweetened and add stevia when I want it sweet.
Anyway, so if you eat sourdough you’re by definition getting less starch than you would from factory bread. So it’s not a perfect solution, but it’s got to be better for you than that high-gluten, high-soy “low-carb bread.”
17/06/2009 at 3:11 pm Permalink
I meant redundancy, not oxymoron. Oops.
29/07/2009 at 6:55 pm Permalink
Hi Ann Marie….
Just came back to this past posting of yours on Jack Bezian’s Bakery.
I am wondering if you ever got around taking his classes and what you learned.
With my husband have Celiac’s so bad he can’t tolerate any gluten at all I am working towards the possibility of him being able to eat the wild yeast sourdough bread I am now making.
What I am wondering do you know if his 3 – 1 month fermenting period for his sourdough breads is when it’s at the dough stage?? If so how is it done….by just covering and letting it sit for ? so long? Or is it a multiple rise / punch down over and over. I’m thinking it’s at the dough stage since then all the flour is added and will have the gluten broken down as where if at the sponge stage you would be adding the final flour in that would not go through this gluten break down.
I am working on a gluten free wild yeast starter and then try it with the GF bread I make him….in order to make his bread far more nutritious. But ultimately would like to see him be able to eat whole wheat and other grains eventually if it’s at all possible.
Would appreciate what ever info you may have to share.
Thank you, Pamela @ Seeds of Nutrition.. http://seedsofnutrition.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/from-sourdough-starter-to-bread/ this is the post I shared today on Real Food Wednesdays.
21/11/2009 at 10:30 am Permalink
I’ve made my own wild yeast starter after a few failed tries. It’s not too hard, it just takes a bit of persistence. There are good directions on this site using pineapple juice. (add on the www.)
breadtopia.com/make-your-own-sourdough-starter/#high_4
VA Susan´s last blog ..Heidi’s birthday tea
26/02/2010 at 2:29 pm Permalink
To answer Julie’s question about the book Artisanal Bread in 5 Minutes A Day, it is an excellent book, very easy to follow and allows me to make fresh bread for dinner after I get home from work. My guess is that this procedure is something like what Bezian is doing. It involves making a large batch of dough (directions in the book for many types of bread), allowing it to rise for 2 hours then —with a LOOSE cover–refrigerating until use. The following steps are quick and easy to do while preparing dinner and it and the fresh bread can be ready in less that an hour. The longer it stays in the Frig, the more like sourdough it turns out.
29/07/2010 at 10:11 am Permalink
Back when my wrists were able to knead dough I caught the sourdough fever from my mother. We all love it. Now that making bread is so hard for me I bought a bread machine (do I whisper that?). My problem is that the dough raises so high it hits the top. But it is oh so good. I am diabetic and all the material I read suggests that sourdough bread is better for you, hence, the bread machine. I think I will have to just knead it in the machine but bake it in the oven.
Really enjoyed reading the comments on this website. Thanks to all you people who enjoy the art of making sourdough.